Meeting with the Queen Yeon Ah Nim on the topic: «Godly Parenting Training».


Recommendations of the Queen Yeon Ah Nim to read:

  1. Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish «How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk» (Yellow Book)
  2. Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish «Siblings Without Rivalry» (Blue Book)
  3. Tedd Tripp «Shepherding a child`s heart» (Green Book)


Queen Yeon Ah Nim: Hello, everybody! Praise the Lord! Hello! I will start the meeting with the prayer, so please join us in prayer.

Our Heavenly Father. Father, thank you so much for today’s meeting with the Russian sisters on the topic of godly parenting. Father, we recognize that our children is not ours, Father, and we do also recognize that our children cannot be raised by our strength and our faith and our knowledge alone, Father, we need Your wisdom, we need Your method, Father, to raise them, Father. As we go forward in this meeting, Father, we pray that this meeting is only governed by You, Father, and we pray all these things in the name of the Blessed Central Families. We report in the name of Christ, we pray. Amen and Aju!

So good to see you, everybody! Hello! Hello! My goodness, there are many familiar sisters of faith! So good to see you, everybody! Do you guys want to introduce yourself just very quick, so I can recognize with you? Kerry, good to see you! Maybe we can start with Kerry.

Kerry Williams: Okay, my name is Kerry Williams. I’m an HSU Head Coordinator, and I’m really happy to know almost everybody here. I’ve actually been taking the Queen’s parenting class, even though I’m too old, but I’m learning a lot, and I’m convinced that this class needs to go global. I want to help the Queen to make this class go global, and I really want to support the Russian-Ukrainian Providence Godly Parenting Training.

Queen Yeon Ah Nim: The other day I was with the young mums with a children under one year old. And we were doing Bible study, and there was like a …I am so sorry, but it was so disturbing by all these babies. While we are doing Bible class. Children are crying on the side. They want to eat something. It was very … yeah. Anyway. Sometimes it’s really good. But sometimes it’s very just… yeah. It’s no way. But I told them, you know, even though it’s not perfect, but we need to invest in our faith growing, spiritual growth. Otherwise, blink of an eye, your child will be 18 years old. So you got to invest in right now. Otherwise, you know what? The next time you realize, I need to teach them faith. And then there will be already time for blessing. So, yeah. I was talking to them. Yeah, 12 years is good age. Yeah, you still have many years. Yeah, I’m so happy that you guys have…

I absolutely love your guys questions. I was really thinking about putting all these questions in my Instagram page. So thank you so much for asking these questions. I kind of organized these questions into like seven. So there was 13 questions I received from you guys. Yeah, I think some of them are overlapping. So I’ll try to answer it. I’ll try to kind of put it together and answer it instead of answering each one of them, if you don’t mind.

So the easiest one is. One sister asked.

Question: «We have collected all your drawings with quotes from the Bible. Children really like your creations. We had the idea to print a book for children. The book will have your drawings on the whole page and a quote from the Bible in Korean, English and Russian at the bottom. Do you mind if we do this?»

They want to print  the book for children by using my drawing or whatever material I put out there. It’s all public. You can do what you want to do. Yeah, I don’t have any copyrights. You guys don’t need a permission, so it’s all public. I don’t mind at all.

And the second question is related to the curriculum that I made with these two books. So, first one is, you recommended three books to read. I’m reading the question, okay?

Question: «You recommended reading three books. One of them is by author Ted Tripp, the other is by Elaine Mazlish. In my opinion, they contradict each other. One says that physical punishment is an integral part of raising a child. The other book teaches to avoid physical punishment. Why do you like Ted Tripp’s book and his parenting methods?»

So, I guess the person who asked this question wants to know why I’m recommending these three books, although they have contradicting ideas. And then I thought the question that is related to this question was, the second one is, why do you like Ted Tripp’s book, his parenting method? So, Ted Tripp is the one who introduced the rod as one of the biblical method. So, I think those two are related. So, I’ll put together these two questions and I’ll try to answer.

So, just in case, if you don’t know, books that I recommend for you guys is… Oh, you are showing the question. Oh, that’s good. So, I guess you guys already know what book I’m recommending. One is «How to talk, so your kids will listen», the other – «Shepherding a child’s heart» and «Sibling without rivalry».

I’ll just refer it to Yellow Book. «How to talk…» as a Yellow Book. I’m not sure you guys have the same color, but I’ll try to speak that way. Yellow Book is the «How to talk…», and then the Blue Book is the «Siblings Without Rivalry», and the Green Book is the «Shepherding a child`s heart». So, this is how I see it.

So, the Yellow Book, I see as a how to communicate to humans. Not just our children, but communicating to other human beings. Because we never learned how to communicate to people. I consider Yellow Book as you learning how to communicate, learn how to communicate to people. Individual level.

And I see the Blue Book as dealing with more than one person. It is, let’s say you are a team leader, right? And you have a couple of staff you are working with. And then those staffs need a constant approval and a working kind of relationship. Then they will constantly want to talk to the team leader. And then they not only have to have a good relationship with me as a team leader, but amongst themselves. I as a team leader, I want them to have a good relationship. So, the Blue Book, the «Siblings Without Rivalry» book, what it does is like that. It teaches you how to de-escalate the tension between your team. So, one-on-one, you can do good. But when it comes to how to de-escalate the tension and misunderstanding, you as a team leader, if you don’t know how to de-escalate the tension and misunderstanding, first, team members, then the team will not be very healthy. You might have a couple of team members who might really like to work hard, but people will just hate you and then, you know, hate the team. So, as a team leader, it’s a constant effort you need to make to de-escalate, create an environment and atmosphere so that they can work together. The Blue Book teaches that. And as a mother and father, I believe seeing the whole family as a team. Although we love each one of them, we as a human being, we have a tendency, we can favor a certain child, but that can end up affecting the whole family. It kind of gives a nice health warning and the reality. So, I really think the Blue Book is important. De-escalate the tension amongst the family, amongst your children, will be very important skill to make the whole family better.

And the third one is a «Shepherding a child’s heart». I love this book. I often said to some of the people, I started a parenting class to do this book. «Shepherding a child’s heart» book. I was just reported it as a Green Book. I see we are not a secular family who want our children to be financially, physically, emotionally independent. We want to share our same faith to our children. That is a very important objective for us. So, this Green Book has… So many mistakes or so many heartaches that we can avoid by knowing it. And it can teach us where parents’ authority comes from, and what kind of authority parents have. And each phase depends on how old our children are, what kind of faith guidance they need and stuff like that. It’s a well-organized, very direct book, I believe. I believe this book is very helpful. Personally, I use Yellow Book and Blue Book. And I studied on these books and I tried to apply them.

But when my child became 12 years old, around then, I got totally lost. And I didn’t know what to do. And around that time, I found this Green Book, «Shepherding your child’s heart». And it pointed out every single mistake. And that really took me to the right path. Of course, with the Second King guidance in Christ. So, I’m very grateful for these books. I do not say that it guarantees if you read this book, your child will be perfect. I do not say that. I will say you will avoid a lot of heartaches. And then you will have a higher chance to have a child in faith with a joy in Christ.

So, with this background, if I answer to the first question: «You recommend three books…» the sister asked. It seems like the Green Book and the Yellow Book, it’s contradicting. So, what it is, is like the Yellow Book actually seek for the goal for the Yellow Book. Yellow and Blue Book, the same author. They actually looking for the goal of the parenting for these books are independent child, financially, physically, emotionally. The goal for the Green Parenting Book is… Disciple of… Disciple of Christ who glorifies the Lord. Are you with me?

So, for Green Book, the parenting goal is different from two the other books. So, the «Shepherding a child’s heart» book, as I said before, the parenting goal is a child who glorify the Lord as a disciple. So, that is that they have a different goal.

I think I do understand when you first read the «Shepherding a child’s heart», it is kind of very… You feel like you got a heartburn or something. Because… What? We supposed to hit our children when they did wrong? We heard that that is no-no. So, I will say it this way. If I just get to the point. He suggested using of a rod below the six years old. And if you read in the Green Book chapter 16. No I`m sorry, it is 15. If you read the chapter 15. Let me just check. I’m kept on moving up. In my book, it’s page 150 – to how of spanking. He talks about eight steps. I don’t exactly like their example, but… They made an example of a pick-upping a toy. So, I do not like the example, but I really like the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

Basically, it’s well-written. It’s not like you hit them out of anger. So, and then we know that it’s actually, it is sparing the rod – spoil the child, and then many other reference in Bible. Rod is, in fact, a biblical method.

But let me tell you what King would say, because that will be important, right? Patriarch is not Second King, so you don’t have to exactly follow what he said. King said, so I would say this, Yellow Book and Blue Book seeking to do the peaceful parenting. So, what peaceful parenting implies is no violence, so no wrath. But when you hear King, Second King’s speech, you will, oftentimes, this speech is godly parenting, parenting with justice, just parenting, parenting with justice. So, what he’s implying in parenting with justice or just parenting meant is, if it is necessary, wrath is permitted. But he actually does not exactly agree with the uses of wrath, the way the author asked to use, but he’s more like when the child is attacking the parents, physically. In that scenario, the rod needs to be there, because he’s using force and violence over somebody, so the violence over him can be justified. But just because he stole something, that’s not the time to use rod, because if we just use rod on that occasion, you will never find out what was really about in his heart.

So, if I go back to the toy picking example. This is what we did. So, that example goes like a father, daddy… I’m just reading the example about spanking in the book, in my book, it’s on page 151 under the section of the how of spanking, under the number three. Daddy told you that you should pick up your toys, didn’t he? Child nodding yes. Father – you didn’t obey me, did you? Child looking down. No. Father, you must, you know what daddy must do, he must spank you.

So, that is the example, and I asked the Second King, he doesn’t agree with this example. In our house, we did not handle a situation like this, let’s say, I asked them to clean the room. I asked them, they will clean it until seven. No, I told them clean the toys, let’s say, let’s stick to the toys, but they didn’t clean it. And then I tell them one in one, this is one in one, you promised from the seven, and you didn’t clean it. When I come back five minutes later, or 10 minutes later, depending on the amount of a toy. I’ll come back 10 minutes later, and you didn’t clean the toy, you’re going to get the second warning. And tell me what can be the consequence, if you get the third warning. And we negotiate about the consequence. Like a … you know, running five times in our front yard, or whatever, right. Or walking 10 minutes, or 300 pushups, and whatever, right. We usually make it a little painful for them. Or when they’re very young, we used to do the toilet up, you know, sitting, with a holding alarm clock for 10 minutes. Yeah, sitting up on a toilet. Open the door a little bit and then turn the light on and then the child can see parents are sitting outside. And then, yeah, when the child is so little, we can’t really, you know, make them run and things like that. Two years old, maybe that’s a little difficult. The baby might just laying down and crying, right? So that might be a little difficult. As they get older, we can negotiate the consequence. And then he got the warning and then he did the consequence, but he still ignore, you know, what parents is asking him to do. Then we can start, we can really think about, we can really think about that as a last, last, result as a rod, okay?

And then it’s good to read this chapter again. Chapter 15 again. And then… one sister, she had a struggle with her three years old boy physically. When he doesn’t like it, he physically kind of beating his mother and father, because they’ve been very kind to them. So in that case, daddy kind of wrapped his arm around, he does tantrum. And then he was like, he was doing like this body motion as well. But kind of daddy kind of kept him down. And then if you become quiet, if you calm down, then I’ll let you go. Calm down. When you calm down, I’ll let you go. He kind of repeated that without any anger. And then as the baby’s three years old boy tantrum, like goes down, he lets him, lets him go, but he puts him on his lap. And then explained to him, you know, this was not okay. And then, and things like that.

So there are many ways to handle it. But and she said, as she do that, his behavior seems like a get worse, got worse. So she really considered about like a spanking. As she read the chapter 15 again. Is she actually so angry in her heart? For the baby, her child. And she objectively, so is this that serious to use rod? And the Holy Spirit said, it’s not time. And as she make a very, a lot of effort within like a six month, her son’s behavior got a lot better. And she’s doing the baby’s day as well.

Yesterday, I was, we were, we had a family gathering. He was there. He was such a pleasant to be around. Yeah. And he got so much love because of that. So, you know, I’m spending a lot of time explaining about rod because this is such a hot topic whenever we talk about this book. So I just wanted to make sure that there is no abuse of method of rod. And I’m just making sure that he only suggests this type of child rearing method under six. After six, he doesn’t recommend it.

And even like some of the books has a little contradiction… even yellow book don’t like a timeout, like a toilet sitting the way we did. Yeah, the author, Adele and Elaine don’t like… Yeah, they don’t like a timeout either. But we, King, Second King, think that’s very just, it’s a just. Instead of lashing out anger on the child.

A couple of times I drew a picture of a human gingerbread figure, human figure. And then I colored 30% of the body from the bottom. Okay, this person is mommy. And then when I say one in one, I`m 30% angry. I make a line about like a 70% of the gingerbread man. And coloring red. Mommy is like, when I say one in two, I’m 70% angry at this situation. I’m not angry at you, but I’m really angry at your behavior and situation. Yeah. I really angry at your behavior. That’s why this is mommy is a 70% angry at your behavior. And then running three is like a mommy is like 100% angry. So I used to divide it like that. So, okay, that was the position on rod. Personally, this, I guess this is the answer for the question.

I know when you first read the book, it feels like a rod is everything. But if you pass that, if you overcome that huddle, it talks about the types of conversation that the Yellow Book exactly talk about and beyond. He sees the communication with a child is one of the main method of a biblical child rearing. So one was rod, we talk, we cover that. And second, then one is communication. And he sees a communication as a not only just conversing each other for their needs. Ted Tripp actually sees with the right communication. We are actually doing discipleship of Christ to our children. And he shows how to do that. That’s why I really like this book.

And the Yellow Book, what it does is like, it teaches the basic communication level. For example, the first chapter of the Yellow Book is the acknowledging your child’s feeling. Right? And it dedicates the whole chapter, one chapter. Because we are that bad about it, about that. We are bad at recognizing our emotion. We are even worse at recognizing our child, children’s emotion. The Green Book, the «Shepherding your child’s heart» says it is to recognize your children’s feelings first, then you can get into the life of communication in Christ.

So I would say like, I don’t want to put it this way, but if I put it very, just very, how to say – very easy. I would say the Yellow Book and the Blue Book is like a plus and minus. And then the, like a «Shepherding your child’s heart» is a multiplication and division and beyond.

So, you know, we…  That’s how I see it. And I see those three books are all very essential. So we are not born with able to doing the multiplication and division and beyond calculus and geometry and then, yeah, and so forth. I’m not going to go there. Okay. So I think that covers, yeah, so with the explanation. I really like Ted Tripp`s books because it, it talks about the discipleship of Christ and common mistakes, parents with the faith do. Like, we think, Hoon Dok Hwe is so important. I did the Hoon Dok Hwe every day! And my children didn’t turn up, you know, literally one parents who devoted their time to the Hoon Dok Hwe and unplugged all the electronics during the Hoon Dok Hwe time and she was very devoted, but her children didn’t turn out so well. Actually, it’s a very tragic story, she has. She then divorced and she, some of her child had a tragic accident and committed a suicide. And yeah, it just fell apart. But she, she really held on to the Hoon Dok Hwe right? She read the True Father’s words. So this is the, one of the common mistake parents with the faith make. Hoon Dok Hwe become idle, just like a Pharisee who upheld the Sabbath as their thing.

I’m not saying Hoon Dok Hwe is bad or keeping Sabbath. But when it becomes the above the love of Christ, when it becomes idle, then children… Hoon Dok Hwe becomes the thing that our children gets further from faith and loving Christ. Yeah, that’s why I… and then the Second Book, the Green Book will give you the long-term perspective, raising your children.

So there’s a homeschooling question. I’ll do this next.

Um, there’s a set of questions that talks about like a boys and teenager rebellion. I’ll explain this three questions first. First one is what is the right way for adolescent boys? Oh, okay.

Before I go in there any questions about this question? Any questions about this? … Referencing to our family, he (the Second King) one time,  smack the head one of my, my child. And then that was it. That was the only one time, it was not even hitting. It was like, yeah, you know, wake up, wake up. So he, was awake, but he was not really doing things. He was not really, um, he was sleeping late and they, who was not waking at the proper time for his homeschooling. So that’s why Daddy was kind of smack in his head. That was the only time, but he was not even beating, because he’s quite capable. He can punch him. I mean, he has jujutsu black belt. So if he really want to beat him, he can beat him. Okay. That, that was the one time I can recall. And then he never used the violence on our children. So that is the record.

And he said one thing, since you’re, um, you have all boys and… 13, 10 and 4, I wrote it down. One of the thing that he really emphasize from like a 12 years old, 13 years old. Doing the peace police, peace militia training helps their kind of anger. When boys are angered, it’s very natural for them to do violence. It is nothing to do with… So, you know, it`s your character. No, actually, even though they are peaceful, they if they’re angry, they, they want to punch. They have this.

So how we did was – as they become older, like a 13, 14. He actually taught them how to do jujutsu, the physical fight aspect. And then they can let out a lot of frustration and sibling rivalry. And then they sometimes do the sparring together under the guidance of Daddy. And in the context of dojo, training ground, not as a random, like they’re eating and tonight you’re going to do the match together. We never did that. Okay? That’s very abusive. I know some parents did that, who loves martial arts, but that’s not okay. It was always fair ground. He was very sensitive to where they are. And then sometimes if the tension is too high, then they didn’t let them do the sparring even.

So you got to have a good intelligence about that. But definitely some kind of physical martial art we recommend. Definitely King recommends jujutsu. Some context, he doesn’t really recommend -taekwondo. I’m just making very clear. I think taekwondo is a real martial art. It can be controversial. I understand. He recommends jujutsu training for older boys. That’s going to make their aggression can come out in a healthy way. So that was one of the things he emphasized. That’s what the King emphasizes.

So what is the example of spanking?

You know what? This is my personal decision. My parents used to use a rod to correct us, discipline us. Up until 18 years old, I still remember. Up until 18 years old. My father was a pastor in Unification church. I was 18. I still to this day don’t remember why I got hit, but I remember I got hit. And as I raised my children, up until my first child was five years old, I used to use a rod as one of the disciplines. But I actually regret it. Because when you read this Green Book, you will see. I never knew. I just did what I learned from my parents. But unfortunately, I was doing it out of anger. I did not recognize it at the time. I thought, you definitely deserve it.

For example, it was a church event, right? Everything is very solemn and quiet. And then my son, four years old, he has to wake up very early. He doesn’t want to go. But I pulled and dragged him. And then he was crying during the church event. And True Father was so angry. He was like, who is crying? He was so embarrassed in front of everybody. And if I’m a bad mother or something. But I lost him again. That was so embarrassed. And I was like, I dragged him to the room. And then I kind of used the rod. I`m kind of beet him. I’m not going to say it beautifully. And that made me feel really bad about myself. And to my son, too. I was like, you know… And after that, my son, as I hit him, he kind of grabbed… He’s five years old, okay? He’s six years old in Korean age. But anyway, he’s around five. And he grabbed the stick. And then: «Why are you hitting me?» I didn’t do anything wrong. This is different, okay? Like a five-year-old. Of course, when he was four years old, he couldn’t say anything. He just sobbed. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I’m sorry – he was crying. I kind of expected that when he was five. But he wasn’t doing that. He said, no, don’t do this. He was rebellious. I was like, I was shocked. I was really shocked. At the time, I didn’t think about any parenting things. I was not in my head. And a child that can do that to me  was very shocking. You cannot know why I became so into parenting. Because I made pretty much all the mistakes in the parenting mode. So that’s how I became so smart in parenting. I became very passionate about it. Because I know if we don’t learn this, we can never apply it. And then we have to live with the consequence of not knowing this in our life. My child grabbing the rod really changed most of my parenting. Then I had to start to search and search and search. And now I am here.

But the thing that I try to tell you now is the reason I recommend not to use rod when they’re young. It’s not because it’s not a biblical method. I do recognize it is a biblical method. But at the same time, I also recognize that another Bible quote in the Ephesians, I believe. Do not agitate your child. Do not make your child angry.

If I use rod when I’m very immature parent, then I know I’m bound to use rod out of my anger to justify my immaturity. So that’s why I repeated that mistake so many times. Oh my Gosh. She’s a wealthy woman. Let’s focus. Let’s focus. So that’s why I decided not to use rod. I’m not mature enough as a person. And then I wasn’t sure whether I cannot make my children angry or not because I was scared, but because I was immature. But it’s very interesting when the same kid who held the rod, when he was five, he was 8 years old and he was playing game. And he got the warning two and he got warning three. He was a fan of like a week. I think he over time game and then he kind of lied. So as we agreed for the consequence, what do you want to do? And then he said, okay, I’ll get like a three hit on his thigh. Yeah, I think thigh. I can’t remember. He brought the rod from my car and I hit him five times. He was eight years old. He did not hold a rod. He did cry.

You know what? I didn’t feel sorry at all to him. It was amazing. Godly uses of a method. Although he was eight years old, he was not six. You know, I was very calm. I wasn’t angry at him. This is calm and he is agree. And then he got hit. And then I don’t think I did the prayer. It was not exactly the way Ted Tripp introduces. But.. Yeah. And then till this day, he doesn’t consider that as a hit. He said, oh, yeah, I deserved it. And then he doesn’t hold a… resentment against me.

So, you know, it’s your decision. Because it is a biblical method. So, I’m not going to say the… We believe parents are God’s agent. You are the God’s representative. And God does judgment on people when they stray from God. And then when they disrespect God. So, you have to make a good judgment and pray about it. Whether this is worthwhile to use rod. You have to really spiritually search. Okay. Am I doing this to justify myself? Or am I doing this… Am I hitting him out of my convenience? Out of my comfort? Because they do listen. They do scare of you when you do it. When they are young, they do. But there is a point that… That it doesn’t work if we use it out of anger.

So, it’s something that you have to wait it out. I’m not going to say you cannot use it, you should not use it. And King never had to use it. And that was one time I used it after I made a decision. After my first one – when he was five years old, I made a decision not to use the rod. And then when he was eight, it was the first one. And after the last one, I used the rod. And after that, I never had to use rod.

Usually, the three warnings… And then took care of it. And then third warning, they had to do the 50 running too. Running of the front yard. And then as they get smarter, what they do is they just do like 40 runs. And then they say, I did the 50 runs. They lie. So, we kind of figured it out. So, we give them like a record of your running. So, as they bring the record, we count. So, after the one run, he has to tap the… He has to, you know, he has to wave or whatever. He has to show his hand or whatever. So, we count the hand for 50 times. Okay, so you did the 50 runs.

But yeah, that’s what we did. And… after you read the book carefully, and if you believe that in the time you’re spending, I will try to carefully follow the steps and remind yourself. See, does he need more love? Or does he need help? To do all the options.

For example, you said your youngest one is a tough one, right? So, maybe you can start to do the days for him. Like, he will have a day that no other sibling for him. Take him out. You and your husband. And I don’t know what he likes, but maybe a little hamburger with the French fries. And then the little… A little, like, extra French fries for his siblings. I don’t know, right? Okay, so you bring that to his siblings. And… Then they actually feel very loved. Because parents tell him, we really love you and I love you about the way. Sometimes you want to go to pee, but you kind of hold it for, you know, potty. Whatever, okay?

He’s two years old, so I’m making this example. Yeah, so he’s two years old. So, as you give him more love, more recognition, more right way to praise him, more right way to encourage him to be autonomous. You try all this instead of, you know, is this time for spanking? We do the positive reinforcement first. Then, if that doesn’t work, then at last, last, last place is a rod. Try all the methods. If that didn’t work. Okay, if that doesn’t work, then, you know, I will pray and search your heart very carefully and then read 8 steps. And then I’ll think about rod.

I hope that’s clear.

Kerry Williams: Can I share something about that? I just want to underscore what the Queen said. My main takeaway, because my kids are all grown, is not to spank out of personal anger or my own negative emotion. When I think back on the times that I did that, I don’t feel good about it. I’m not proud of that. And that’s why I really like the way Ted Tripp talks about both you and your child are disciples of Christ. So, it’s in my relationship with Jesus, it’s in my relationship with my parents that I am trying to control my own emotion. I’m trying to have the Holy Spirit live in me. That’s between me and God. And so, if I do something out of emotion or out of anger, then I should apologize to them afterwards.

Because I let myself become self-centered. I acted selfishly. I didn’t do it because it was for my child. I did it because I couldn’t control myself anymore. So, controlling my emotions is really what I’m down to. And just one more thing I want to share about that. When your kids get older, if they think of mommy as somebody who gets emotional, then they don’t want to share their secrets. They don’t want to share something that maybe is really bothering them, a more serious problem. They can’t share with Mommy because she’s going to freak out. So, that’s really important. And it’s not easy. But I’m just saying when they get older, it’s even more important that you can control your emotions so they can be shared with you. That’s what I wanted to say.

Queen Yeon Ah Nim: Thank you so much, Kerry. That’s really beautiful. Thank you. As I teach parenting class, my children, let’s say, four of them… I have five children, and four of them got blessed. And then I have a youngest one who’s 17. So, as I teach the class, two of them were in the class when I taught. Three of the children were in my class. And think about that. I’m not a perfect Mom. I made so many mistakes. And, you know, they read a book, and then they will see me with that standard, right? So, it can be quite challenging, see? So, I kind of had the one time, I really had this pang of conscience, right? And  just, Kerry’s remark, Kerry’s comment really reminded me this. I actually had to apologize to them about certain things. Like, for one of my sons, I apologized.  I’m very sorry, son, that when you actually needed faith guidance, mommy was not interested in faith.

I’m second generation. So, I had my own course of really having interrelationship with the Christ, and I want to know more about God. And then I had my, I guess, certain course.

So, when they were like in their 10, 13, I wasn’t in that space. So, I actually apologized to him that I’m very sorry that I wasn’t able to provide the way of faith guidance and faithful upbringing that you needed at that time. And then, I really meant it. And then, we kind of spent like a couple Mondays to do the question and answer in faith.

So, it was not everything. I think it was important from my part, and hopefully that was important from his part too. Yeah, many things. Sometimes I have to apologize to my daughter-in-law for raising my son that way. And I had a blind spot, and I had to apologize to my daughter-in-law. Two of my daughter-in-law was in my class as well. So it was like, it’s interesting thing. Am I digressing? Yeah, I’m digressing. Okay, I’m getting off the topic.

So I’ll go back to the teenager. Teenager boys. Okay. Teenager boys are tough. They’re not girls. They’re guys. That’s why it’s difficult. We can’t understand the thing they do, why they do, and why they do what they do. So they are different. Many times we can’t really understand our husband, right? Hopefully, you guys understand your husband all the time and every time. If that’s the case, you guys don’t need a respect. You guys can automatically do it. But I think, you guys will have some challenge, just like me. Boys are same too, especially teenager boys.

So for boys, I think it’s important to… I can’t believe I’m saying this, but it’s important to embrace their violent instinct. It’s important that they can be a bit violent, but it’s actually normal like this. So that does not mean you allow them like a hit you or beat their siblings. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, I’m not saying that at all. Or like a beat their part-time manager. Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no. That’s not what I’m saying. Okay. Of course, we have to draw a boundary and tell them like a hitting is not allowed. Hitting other people is not allowed.

I have grandchildren running around our house and one of my grandchild is like three and two and then they’re both. Then like 20 minutes, they’re peaceful. After 20 minutes, they’re fighting over. And then they become physical, right? Pushing and then hitting. And then we say, do not hit other person. We say, do not.

We do not say, do not hit David. We don’t say that. We say, do not hit other person. In this house, we are not allowed to hit other person. So we do that. And if you don’t like the other person is doing, speak that you don’t like. And we use this method. But what I meant by, you know, don’t freak out. As a woman, we kind of freak out that our boys have a violent thought and then, you know, strong desire for sex. We kind of freak out. Our children watch the pornography, we freak out.

When we found out that our children had a physical fight in the school, we kind of freak out. When one of my son, I still remember. Oh, that’s right. And then your boys might do the physical fight and then blood might like come out. And don’t freak out. Okay.

So I’ll just let you know, that’s a part of the boys and it’s okay. I remember one of my boys was working in the Dunkin Donuts… All my boys worked in the Dunkin Donuts. And then about like, Mark, he had… he really wanted to just punching his manager, Dunkin Donuts manager. This old Indian lady. He wanted to punch her face. Okay. «I just wanted to punch her so bad in ounce!»  Cause she was like, uh, make him embarrassed in front of other customers. Scolding him… in front of customers. And, and she just stole… hard time…employees, tips in the jar. She just takes it. And then she does many stuff. Okay. According to him.

So he said he wanted to punch her so badly. And then we talked it out. Yeah, that’s natural. That’s natural. And I was, I was calmed down myself. Yeah, you can have this thought, but you know, it doesn’t mean we act on that thought, right? And then the, let’s see what is the best way to deal with her. And I kind of talked it out, but I didn’t… cause I, because I learned this, I never demonized it.

And then, I told his Daddy and then he had a very good talk with the Daddy, the Second King. And he also said, yeah, sometimes I wanted to punch my sister so bad. He shared that kind of filing, but…It was so good that I didn’t punch her. It was good, that I didn`t came out of my anger. It has pass by.  When you have that big, big, strong urge to punch sometimes and you can do the nine breath and then practice the nine breath and all that.

Question: «Can pocket money be given to boys? Or is it necessary for them to earn it?»

The money issue is a little bit different. I somehow read this «pocket knife». So for pocket knife, I would suggest the seven to eight years old. But for pocket money, I think it really depends on the situation. If they really need a money to buy lunch, I would give it to him, right. And if he really, really wants to, after like a school, all his friends is being, I don’t know, hot dog. I don’t know how it’s big in Russia, in your country. But if they, all the friends are eating and then he really, really wants $2. Maybe you can give once in a while. If he was helping around the house, I don’t know, you guys can really solve that out.

But one thing that King emphasized was a… My daughter, she made this … paracord braces, and then she kind of sold that to, to Daddy. Yeah, they make something and then, we kind of bought it. And then she was able to sold it in Kook Jin Nim`s Tommy gun warehouse.

And that’s, you know, that might not be for everybody…My children, I think the first son was, I think eighth grade, so he’s like 15. He started to work at Tommy gun warehouse – Kook Jin Nim`s company as a package man.

And my daughter worked in a Dunkin’ Donuts during the summer. She earned some money. So that was a very important for homeschooler, I believe. To find very safe place. It has to be safe. So you have to kind of talk after… before they get into the starting to do the part-time job, you have to kind of carefully watch them. You have to do the child day and make sure it’s okay. Yeah. Around the 15 years, it’s, we recommend them to actually start to making money, start to making money.

That’s very helpful for especially homeschooler I would like to say. And eight and seven years old we didn’t do it. But if my daughter goes to class at night, ballet class, whatever, then I did give her some money. It was a really depends on the child and depends on the child situation. So that is about the pocket money.

And then next question: «Is teenage rebellion always indicative of parental errors in parenting or can it be an inevitable period of growing up and maturing as a teenager?»

I really love Ted Tripp’s analogy on this. He said this. Let’s say, um, we as a faith community… Okay. I’m not even going that big. Me as a young Mom, I looked at the senior Unification Church brothers and sister. And so – why their child is so bed? The parents supposed to be  hypocritical, maybe they are very faithful outside, but at home they may be tyrant. And that’s why their child is like that, rebellious. And they do a partying all day and all that.

Some of them vaporing and they smoking and they think it’s cool. And playing with the girls, playing with the boys and they put it up on their social media. And I was like, what`s wrong. I as a young Mom, I used to think that.

But I realized I was not a hundred percent, right. I will not take away the parents five percent responsibility, but I do also understand child has a specific character as well. So they might have a rebellious character. Ted Tripp made a beautiful metaphor on this question. Let’s say you as a potter and then your child as a clay. Let’s say clay is a perfect clay for me to make a pottery. Without so much effort the clay will make the beautiful shape of a pottery. But let’s say this clay has a lot of air, a lot of, what is it, stones. As you make the pottery, you have to kind of pluck it out these stones. And you have to kind of… I did some pottery class.

When we make a bread, we kind of have to roll it many times, right. Just like that. We have to kind of roll it and then we have to make it like… We have to pop out all the air possibly, there is in that clay. So, we have to make the clay in the perfect shape, but sometimes the clay is not in perfect condition.

It is so Biblical… Let us say, me as a potter, I might not be a very experienced potter, okay. And then I have this good clay, I make a good pottery, right. But if I have a… as an unexperienced potter, I have a very difficult clay, the air in there, like everywhere. You might not even able to make a pottery, a beautiful vase. But let’s say I’m an experienced potter, and if I have a bad clay, then I’ll be able to make something out of it, right. It might not be perfect, but I might be able to make something out of it.

So, I love this analogy because the responsibility is not 100% on the potter, nor the clay. This is why we have to understand our level as a parent, and also know the good side, and then the problem side of my children. We have to have a good analogy on our children.

I’m talking about a teenager rebellion. He clearly says the teenager rebellion is not because of teenager rebellion. It is applied for girls and boys. I think it’s the same. Usually, teenagers, they become rebellious because before teenage they had a resentment. They had a complaint about their parents, but usually, they did not have a verbal capability and emotional capability to speak that out, bring out to surface.

So, it’s been suppressed. So, as they at the age when they become taller than their Mom. They feel like, they are more smarter than their Mom. In my case my first language is Korean, my children’s first language is English. So, they’re like, oh, I speak better language than my Mom. She’s kind of, you know… They would not say that, but she’s not that good. They’ll do that, right? They’ll make that judgment, right? They’ll make an evaluation card. It is Mommy. So it’s like that.

So, rebellion usually can be minimized. Even though the clay is a rough, if we are more skilled, more devoted, Mom who are willing to try, do the Godly message, then the rebellion can be minimized. But I would not say it’s totally on parenting. It’s also the child that has responsibility as well.

When the child has the idol as the rebellion… anything that makes my parents heartaches, I’ll do anything to make my parents suffer. I’ll do anything. There are some children like that. I’m sorry to say there are some children like that. I’ll be a homosexual because that’s going to be like a stabbing in my Mom’s heart, my Daddy’s heart. I’m sorry there are children like that.

So, basically they have an idol of a rebellion. So, I’m not going to eliminate all those, all those 5% responsibility of a human individual. But, in spite of that learning parenting and making best practice on this principle will have the higher chance to minimize the rebellion in teenager age. And I would say prepare, prepare, prepare.

I’ll go until three o’clock. I wrote down in Korean. So this is the common mistake in parenting, I would say. So, for children, from 0 to 6, common mistake of parents is…

I’ll do three, three different levels. This is all in the book, but I just, organize it. I’m talking about Green Book. The book divides into three phases, 0 to 6, 6 to 12, 12 to 19. So, the age can be a little like a blur depends on the child. It can be five, it can be seven, but I’ll just roughly made this distinction.

For you guys it can be more easy to understand. So 0 to 6, 6 to 12, 12 to 19. Usually, you know the reason the younger children is difficult to deal with? Because if they have siblings, even though they are two, they might going through the development age of three. So what you saw when your first child was two, you don’t see that in the youngest child.

So that’s usually the case. I’m talking about this because two Moms that we are with now had difficulty with the youngest child. That’s why I’m saying this. So the common mistake the parents do with the children between 0 to 6, I have three common mistakes.

First one is the parents does not show example. They don’t lead by example. They just say no. They never pick up the Cheon Seong Gyeong or Bible. They never really pray. But they kind of push children. Let’s go to Church, it’s Sunday. You got to go to Church. They are not leading by example.

Number two is for a child between 0 to 6. When the child doesn’t listen to parents’ command, they just use power to just squash them. Do it! Or do you want to be, you know, do you want to get like some rat or something like that? You’re not going to have dinner tonight or whatever, right? So when the child doesn’t listen, you just use your authority and power. That’s the usual common mistake instead of communicating.

And then number three is you just take for granted your child’s effort and character. I wrote that down because many parents already prophesize the child’s future. Oh, this child is lazy. Oh, this child is very smart. By 6, they’re like, oh, I’m so amazed by her. Oh, she’s going to be something. So we love to labor our children. Oh, she’s such a good child. She always listens to Mommy. She’s always helpful. I actually take our children’s… the child might be making really a lot of effort to be good, but we as parents don’t recognize it. We just take it for granted. Then eventually they kind of fade away.

So anyway, those are three common mistakes. And from 6 to 12, the common mistake of parents, the first one is that since they can talk a lot, talk much more, the first one is… Here I have also three common mistakes.

First one is we make more regulation to restrict their behavior. For example, there’s a computer example here. For like a young child, I see my daughter-in-law, I think her method is very good. The baby have five minutes video time. So he’s watching the video. It’s usually a truck comes out, the car comes out. He’s watching five minutes. And then around like one minute left, the Mommy tell him, okay, we have a one minute left. And then is 30 seconds. We have 30 seconds, five, four, three, two, one. Okay, it’s time to give it back to me, give back to my phone. And then the boy is like, no, I want to watch more. Okay, we talked about this and we promised. Then she counting 10, you’re going to give it to me. I know, you don’t want to give it to me now. You want to watch. She acknowledge it, but eventually gives it back to her. So that’s about like a two, three years old, that works.

But as the children become older, we try to make more rules. Like what should we do? No, you cannot… you have to eat. On Sunday, you cannot watch TV or something like that. Don’t use those bad words.  If you use these words, you’re going to take a consequence. We trying to kind of regulate them, kind of surveil them, sort to speak. So we make more rules to control their behavior. That’s a common mistake.

The second one is … we as a faithful, we parents who cares about faith, we start to confuse a child who try to follow religious rule. We consider them as a faithful child. I don’t know if that makes sense. So when we see a child who is a Pharisee, we actually mistaken the child as a faithful one. For example, the child always get up at seven o’clock and he does a full bow to True Parents. Oh my Gosh, it’s amazing. He’s only like an eight. Oh, he can recite the Family Pledge. He memorized the whole Family Pledge. He’s like 11 years old. In Korean, in Korean.

And all these things, we actually mistaken their side of being Pharisee-like as we mistaken as they’re faithful. This is actually two different thing. They’re doing this… I’m not saying those things are bad, okay? I’m not saying you should never do that. No, no, no. It’s good to make them to do Kyung Bae. It’s good to make them recite the Family Pledge.

But if we mistaken their Pharisee-like behavior as being spiritual maturity, then you can make a big mistake. They’re two different things. For example, I have  one sister and she didn’t memorize the Family Pledge. When my sister and me and my parents are there, I just go in front of my parents and I start reciting Family Pledge in front of my sister. So my sister can look bad, okay? And then Mom is like, oh, you did such a good job. Oh my Gosh. And she was so surprised, whatever. And in that way, I can look better in front of my parents than my sister. So I play this game a lot. And my parents actually thought I’m actually a good girl. I’m a girl who loves God. But they’re two different things. So I’m just letting you know this is a very common mistake.

And third one in this age between 6 to 12 is parents commonly make a mistake – they do not prepare for teenager age. What I meant by it is that between when their child is 6 to 12, it’s a time for parents to really study. I would say the Christian apologetic, the proof of God. Ted Tripp said he actually even studied the basic physics so that he can explain children with the physics. This is actually very common in apologetic field. In Christian apologetic field.

So the parents has to really search and they have to be very well versed in Divine Principle and Bible in order to help their children. We have to be an evangelist. We have to be a pastor. Father has to be a pastor. So if we don’t prepare when our children is between 6 to 12, then when our children becomes like 12, 13, 14, and they start asking this question about faith, why do we have to do prayer when God is not even answering?

Or like why God killed so many Israelites? Isn’t that cruel? I don’t care this God. He’s kind of cruel. And if God is there, if True Father is really Messiah, why all this world is so messed up? But he’s supposed to save the world. Interesting, right?

Even like how come Father has so many women? Trust me, they’ll go into the internet and they will start to research and they’ll start to bring so many questions to you. And if you become like, oh, oh, if you kind of baffle or you start like, ah, y-e-a-h, you start to mumble. And then if you were not giving them adequate answers, then they will think, oh, Mommy is not resourceful. Mommy is not resourceful. They will start somewhere else to find the answer.

So it’s very important to talk about this topic and prepare for the danger time. And then for teenager the common mistake is a just like I sad… teenager age is from 12 to 19 or from 13 to 18, however you want to say it. Parents get baffled and parents get so frustrated by teenager children`s behavior, impulsive behavior.  And they start judging them and condemning them. Because it’s very easy to condemn them out of fear. Out of fear of losing them. Do you hear me?

One thing, especially for women – we have to control is fear. You cannot be under the spirit of fear. If we do, they can catch you right away. So the only way I think against the spirit of fear is I really believe studying Bible and studying scripture. We can talk about it next time. The second mistake is like restrict them, limit them and blaming them. I didn’t arrange you that way. What happened to you? Blaming them and then restrict them.

I know one parent in Europe and then the daughter was becoming very rebellious. When she became like 16, 15 and 16. So he wasn’t even sure where this girl is. She said she’s going to go to school or she said she’s going to school and she might go somewhere else with her friends. So he did not even have that basic trust with his daughter. His daughter made so many problems apparently. So he would go in front of school. Their relationship was so bad. She doesn’t even want to ride her Daddy’s car. So he had to make sure that she goes into the school. He has to see with his eyes. And then he has to go in front of the school as the school ends. And that girl actually went to school. He has to make sure this. So he was like restricting her. He made all sorts of restriction but restriction doesn’t work at this age.

They have a friend who has a car. They have a friend who has extra money. They have other men who want to have sex with your daughter. Sometimes even son, okay? There are so many predators. Even like a homosexual. Even my King warned my children when they went to public school when we came to the Pennsylvania at first. He said not even just be alone with the girls. Don’t be with the boys alone either. And if they ever try to touch your private parts, kick their face. That’s what he said. So, you know, you give those kind of social pressure appropriated advice. So the restriction and then the condemning them, criticizing doesn’t work.

And then number three, very common mistake of a parent in the teenager time is I would say – make them feel guilty and try to change their behavior. «Because you did this. I became sick. I had a cancer». Or if you don’t get Blessed now, then my health dwindled, whatever. It sounds crazy, but I know plenty of parents who did this.

I just share the one column of this and I’ll share it to Kerry and then you guys will see the rest of it. But this is all in the book. Yeah, some of them I admit I edit, but most of the knowledge in this, the summary that I made is in this book. So that’s why I’m saying that this book is very helpful to avoid many mistakes that I made. I made a lot of mistakes. I hope you don’t make so many mistakes.

Question: Are computer games for children bed? Should they be banned from playing them at all or can they be played from time to time?

So, briefly about computer games. You know, it`s so funny… My first two boys were so, so, so, about computer games! They sometimes wake up at two o’clock  and play all day. They don`t have to even eat. They literally play all day, all night.

I saw one brother, he’s in Columbia University. He’s very smart. I saw him doing game for two days without resting. It was like for 48 hours he was doing. Because it was like at that time it was Xbox. You could like break the next step, next step. So he finished the whole quest.

So boys do that. I was like, I was so amazed. Didn’t you do it already 15 hours? Isn’t that enough? Isn`t it crazy at one point?  My son, one of my son was doing playing games. I literally want to grab his back, back of his shirt. Grab it if I have a strength. Grab it, bring him out of chair. And then just put him into the room. The room, where was no, no…

If I had a strength, I would have done that. But I do not have a strength. So I couldn’t do that, but… I’m telling you, I really hear your frustration. But this is the time that we really showed the parents like emotional control. At the time, obviously I wasn’t really good at controlling my emotions. See, can you see why I couldn’t use a rod? Okay, yeah.

Anyway, so… You know, so what the experts usually recommend is… Use consents. Okay, after six, return the computer to parents. But you have to make a consents with your son, with your children. So, and then you put it up on your desk, on their desk. Are you agree with this? Is that okay? And then I will give them warning if they’re late. Like it was eight o’clock that they supposed to return, but they didn’t. And this is warning one. And then probably like it was like supposed to be eight, but it was like 8.30, then he got warning one. And you and him remember, if we get warning three, you’re not gonna have a game for three days.

Or you guys can make an agreement. Okay, so he will bring the computer. But I will do that. And at the same time, I will do, I will talk about, I will research. The Mommy is like a half scientist and researcher. You have to research why you don’t like a computer game.

«I don’t like a computer game because it makes you stupid. It’s not gonna work out. What is wrong with you for 15 hours?» That doesn’t work, okay? That doesn’t help. So, those are very emotional challenged words. And the child listen to that, what they will do is – Mommy, I’m gonna have a play over with my friends. And they go to friend’s house. Play computer for 15 hours, okay?

Or they go to… in Korea, we have something like a PC room. So the PC room, it sounds weird, but it’s like, I guess it’s a play. I don’t know why they even… There’s like a line of a computer, you can play all day. Computer games. And dark too. And you can do all sorts of things. So, you know, you can’t really restrict them, but you have to really make them understand why it’s harmful. Why psychology behind the computer. You guys have to talk about this.

Let’s say man has a hunting instinct, and when man hunts and game, it’s like a dangerous quest they have done, produce dopamine. So that was our hunter-gatherer’s brain has been like developed. But as we use that instinct, using the computer game, see? So when you actually get the jewels from the quest, your brain releases the dopamine, and it kind of mimics the hunt and then the gather the animal. But this is fake. So dopamine releases, but you have no game, no animal, no big animal that you caught.

When this is repeated enough, then you start to losing the real world, real accomplishment. It gets different through the real gaining. So that’s why I want to train the brain that way. So that’s one explanation, and I’m sure you guys will find many wonderful explanations. Andrew Huberman, he talks about the computer game. He talks about why pornography is bad. So he’s a Stanford neurobiologist, so neuron biologist, if I’m saying right. So he’s a brain scientist in Stanford University. So he talks a lot about brain things. So I sometimes watch it, and sometimes I don’t understand. Many times I don’t understand, but they have a lot of summary videos in YouTube, so you can watch that. I’m sure it is available in Russian as well.

So definitely use those resources. Don’t lecture them. I will first make the agreement with them. Three o’clock. How come two hours is so short? With the boys, I can say this with confidence. With the boys, I made it very clear. I put out my phone. Okay, we have five minutes. Before I talk to them, I write down all the agenda that I can cover within five minutes. And I, okay, I want to meet you in five minutes. When is a good time for you? When is a good time for you?

So I write it down everything, what I want to say within five minutes. I keep the five minutes. This is what I want to tell you. Shin Pal was like seven years old, I think. Yeah, seven, eight years old. So we have only five minutes. So listen, okay? Pay attention. Okay. I’m done with my five minutes, but if you want to say something, that’s fine.

So after five minutes, they want to talk. That’s why we can continue. So I made it very clear about this. So I really kept that. I was very disciplined. Because boys don’t listen to Mommy after five minutes, trust me. After five minutes, they’re there, but they’re not exactly there.

If you actually keep this principle with the boys, they will really appreciate it. They will really appreciate it. Okay, my Mommy is not really bent on me. She’s very fair. She makes the best effort to respect my time.

My boys actually got reprimanded by the other Mom. The other Mom wanted to kind of change to, you know, kind of discipline them. Because my son and their son fought. And their son was so surprised by me. So I have five minutes with you, so five minutes. And then my son got reprimanded by his Mom. And then he was lectured for like 40 minutes. And after that, Mommy, I really appreciate you.

I know we have other questions. And I will actually put up these answers to these questions. Maybe like during the November, until November. I can’t promise to do it right away. But when I have more free time, I think I will have more free time. Right now, my daughter just had a baby, so I’m helping her and et cetera. So that’s another thing. But I will eventually put up my answers for these questions.

I guess I got to go. But if you have a really comment or really something that I really need to know now, I can mention, maybe short.

And I want to ask Kerry to pray.

Kerry Williams: Please join me in prayer. «Our most beloved Heavenly Father. Father, thank you so much that You are love, and that You gave us lives where we could become mothers. Father, the love that we have for our children is the love that You have for us, but Your love is even deeper. Father, we want so much to raise our children, so they can become truly free. Truly free by giving their lives to Jesus, giving their lives to True Parents. Understanding that they too are sinners, but that’s the beginning point of freedom. So, Father, I really pray they can experience Your love through us. I pray we can draw them closer to us, Father, as they understand that we are disciples of Christ, just like they are. Father, I really want to thank You so much for our True Parents, for Jesus Christ, for their incredible sacrifice. We’ll never really know what they went through for us, but we know that they did go to the cross many, many times.

Father, thank you for our beloved King and Queen, who are so serious to establish Your Kingdom, and to help do whatever they can to help us create beautiful, blessed, central families. Father, thank you we could meet together today from Russia, from the United States. We are really sisters in heart, and I really want to pray, Father, for my sisters from Ukraine and from Russia, that they can take this mantle of becoming true women and true mothers, and they can take to heart the wisdom with which You spoke today, so that we can continue to seek the help of the Holy Spirit.

Father, we cannot do this on our own. On our own, we don’t have the strength, but with You, Father, together with Your Holy Spirit, Father, You will help us, You will guide us.

I pray for each and every child of these mothers, that You right now, Father, will touch their hearts. And I pray we can become women of prayer, because there are things that You can do, Father. You need our cooperation, You need our love, You need our obedience. So, Father, we really want to sincerely offer this time to You, and pray that the seeds that have been sown today can grow, and we can really be brothers and sisters together in Your Kingdom. I thank You, Father, all for this time, sincerely, in the names of all the Blessed Central families here, and in my name Dug and Kerry Williams. Amen and Aju!»

Amen and Aju.



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